Real-World Case Management for SLPs: Data, Dismissal & Boundaries

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Transcript of “Real-World Case Management for SLPs: Data, Dismissal & Boundaries” – Bright Conversations Podcast

Welcome to this episode of Bright Conversations. Super excited today to talk about all things. Data, dismissal, and boundaries, AKA real-world case management tips for school-based SLPs. And I can't think of anyone better to talk on this subject than our guest today, Amanda Schaumburg. So, welcome.

I know I call you Mandy. Is that like, do you want to go by your, your formal doctor? Amanda Schaumburg. I answered a vote at this point. So it doesn't matter.

Mandy is kind of like my more informal chill name. So, but I answered a vote. So we'll go with that. Well, I know you're from Texas and I know that your private practice, so you are working as, are you working with students right now? Are you doing more management of your contract services and your staff and everything?

So, right now, for one more month, I am doing maternity leave coverage. So I am doing therapy one day a week and then I have other therapists who work for me to help out. But my main role is case management. I write over 230 to 50 IEPs a year. That's like my main job is just writing IEPs for kids.

And then the therapists who work for me, they get to go do therapy only. They love it. I love it. So it's the perfect setup for me. Well, and it's kind of polarizing.

I feel like in the field, you have people that are looking for getting out of therapy and just focusing more on like evaluations and paperwork and supervision. And then you have the polar opposite those folks that are like seeing a piece of paper again. I'm cool. I want to work with kids. Yes, exactly.

I just in the spot where I love writing IEPs. I love talking about them. I travel and train school districts on IEPs. I talk at conventions about it. It's a, it's a very odd love, but I love it.

It's, I could talk about it all day. So you're in private practice. You are an SLP covering maternity leave and have worked in the schools. Your whole career. Most of your career.

Most of my career I worked at like a nonprofit outpatient clinic. They started contracting me into school. So I worked for them and I started getting kind of, you know, my foot in the door working in schools that way. And then I just loved it. And so I switched to I think school's full time 2015.

Of course I did like the rehab PRN after school hours, a little bit to try to keep up those skills, but I just don't. That's just not my jam. And then I've done some ECI coverage with the birth to three. So, but most my hearts in the schools. I absolutely love doing school therapy and case managing school.

IEPs. Well, and to look at the progression so you do present on all of those topics, but you also are a children's book author. You have Panda speech publishing and I know we've seen each other at multiple conventions. In person and you it's just been fun to watch like the progression of materials into you are now a bona fide publisher with education, which is super cool. How did that even come to to be.

Well, originally I was one of those people who just put my stuff up on teachers pay teachers and people responded well to it and eventually that became a big booming business and I had no idea that would ever take off. So one of the things I sell sell and I mean I used to sell but I still do but it's not my focus sorry was my lift a flat books that you print out and make and everyone loves them and they would say oh I wish these were a real book. And I'm like well that would be impossible these are too like complex or too unique. So after I quit the schools I really got thinking about my business and I'm like, well how hard would it be to make a real book. And so I started doing research, reached out to some publishers realizing I'd rather do it myself because I want to own every little like piece of this project.

And I found a book book manufacturer because my books are unique they have fl aps and then little movable pieces. I also have regular children's books but those are what kind of set my publishing company apart. And so that's kind of how it morphed it more from a TPT product into a full blown book and then I realized there's a lot that goes into selling books so I started my publishing company so I could handle all of that correctly. And that's amazing. As if you didn't have enough to do that's how I always built you like anything that we add on, it starts happening and then you're like but I need this and there isn't this so might as well just do that too like it's crazy how it snowballs into you.

Now I'm doing many things. Who am I funny because my books I started making felt toy companions to go with it and now I'm in like making a plushie to go with one of my children's books so now I'm learning the laws behind manufacturing up plushie in the US there's laws that I have to follow. It's so it's just I love it. It's interesting hazards and flammability materials interesting like you don't think about it until you have to really think about it. Exactly.

This is kind of a nice transition into what our subject is today is that we are going to talk about data collection and all of that. I think one of the biggest things I hear even in the courses that we've hosted on a selfie summit or anything is whenever there is something like a cool book. The next step is great how do I write a goal for that or how do I collect data that centers around, you know, not necessarily a product but so to speak like how does that all connect together so let's dive right into kind of that. We have our chat today I just think data collection is one of those things that everyone knows they need to do and SLP specifically have that baked in training that I think when you work in a school. Not everybody does it but with us it's kind of like we know we're supposed to but even if we're not, we feel bad about it.

But other people on our team they're just like well you know I take data at progress reports or whatever so let's chat a little bit about some strategies because I am a huge believer in data obviously we have products that support data collection. But what are some of your kind of tried and true tricks that you suggested whether it be to your teammate or that you've used yourself for data collection . Sure, so I talk about this a lot and I actually have present on data collection . I think the thing that most SLP's do not wrap their head around a lot is that we don't need to be taking data during a whole session we don't need to even take data every session I know gas. Oh my gosh, and what I mean is like you know those hard percentages 56% we don 't have to have that reported every time.

And so that is my main tip that I always tell people. And because when I was doing this early on in my career I felt like I was what I call the tally monster. I am sitting there trying to teach trying to do these beautiful therapy sessions with all these kids and I'm just telling all these responses. And then at the end I'm just you know adding them all up. And the problem with that is that that data is not reliable.

And I know that sounds crazy. But if you're recording that data that data tells you how that kid is doing with all the bells and whistles of speech therapy, not how they're doing independently. So, that's when I started really thinking about how I took data differently and I started doing what I call data sampling. So, that's kind of, I mean, to summarize what a data sample is it's kind of sound self explanatory but it's basically, you're going to see where the kid is at on whatever goal or skill in a short burst of trials at the beginning or end of the session, whatever preferences with no feedback, queuing, teaching bells and whistles, and just see where that kid is independently. Because that data, it's better to report than the data that you took with all of your beautiful teaching and strategies.

Does that make sense. I feel like I'm kind of a weird way. Now the reason why I think I'm so passionate about data and I wasn't always it to me data was something that I knew I had to collect and I knew I had to build Medicaid and somebody told me I had to but I didn't really have the I didn't even say understand it wasn't even buy in I was like just not kind of I'm like yeah I know I need it, but I don't know why I needed it. And but I do think that that that whole idea of this is what is driving what you do for bells and whistles as you write. I need to know what they're doing now so then I know anywhere always doing that in the moment too I know we're adjusting.

So that's where when you said you'd have to take data every session in my brain . That's not how I frame it. I frame it you do you do take data every session you don't need those numbers. Right. Yes, how he marks.

And so even I presented as part of summit and it was all about data collection and that was one of the things I'm like I know probably people are throwing tomato cans but I do think you need to take data. I mean the, the thoughts out of your brain and putting it somewhere, whether it be on paper somewhere where you can use it because all of that even when you're working with kids we're constantly. We're data machines we are right. I mean any and so are teachers I think teachers don't always think of themselves like that too but it's like if you were thinking, you know what, that didn't work and I need to try this next time . Data, right.

Yeah, those observational that the stuff that you observe in in those subjective things, though that can be a form of data doesn't have to be seven out of 10 trials 60% accuracy so you're absolutely correct. You will write a note on every session and have some form of data but like you said, doesn't have to be that formal percentage that is listed in the goal so yeah I really like that you brought that up because that's a good point. There are some resources that you have found for doing your data sampling, it's funny as we're talking to you all I can hear is that you say data, and I typically say data but then because you say data, I'm starting to say data but then I fall back into data. So I'm going to be a tomato tomatoes today and probably I said data at the beginning just because you said it and I thought oh my god. So, going back to my original question what is some things that help to stream line your collection other than just that idea of data sampling.

How are you doing it, how are you collecting data and making it easier for you to because again the whole purpose of of data is using it like we need this to determine effectiveness of our treatment so what are some right have helped you to take it analyze it and not have that be another full time job. Right. So, I mean, I teach all my students, like, for the ones I've been seeing since the being in the school because I was there, their SLP is out on maternity leave, and so I'm having to, I'll have to report one progress note for all these kids. So whenever I want to do a data sample I teach my kids goal check so and so get over here, and then where it's just like so quick, and it's not a big deal it doesn't distract because I have had when I present about this people like I just don't know how to, what do you do with the other kids I'm like this is not going to take you out of time you're not going to need an extra plan. So just think very quickly.

I like to use, I have a little basket that I have with all my really my favorite, like, you know progress monitoring tools or card decks that I like or list of words that I want to use, but also there's plenty of online tools to do this. You don't have to be you don't have to recreate the will here there are plenty of things you can use. I know SLP toolkit has the progress monitoring built in, and I've used that for years, for years and it makes it so easy. And then there's also other tools like swivel it's another SLP created tool. You know just just use something that works for you if you would like the actual things have a little basket ready for your goal checks and just call it your goal check basket, make it simple it doesn't need to be fancy.

And I love that I think that's you I know even when we first started doing tool kit, people are like how I can't use an iPad or computer in front of my kids they'll get so distracted. Like, I know even series to talk about she would work with preschoolers and she 's like oh this one's for me. It's just that explanation of just like, no, this isn't a play one, so to speak. And so that's right, it's our smart, you know you can tell them that this is because even when I was doing paper I used to have a binder in my lap, and they were always like what are you doing. Because if you don't I would be the same way if somebody was doing something like well what are we like chatting and working here together and what are you doing so I don't think people get in kind of stuck in their brain about how kids are going to react versus just right and it becomes baked into you.

Oh, we do a goal check when you know when Miss Mandy says we do a goal check I go over here and then the other kids are set up to where they're like oh yeah like we're already working on this. You know I really think you can do yeah I love that. Oh absolutely well and I that point of kids get distracted like when I was taking data I remember when I was doing it like the tally monster way. Kids would be like what does that mean, why did you put a minus you know they would they would try to see what I would put you know and I know me if I'm in my doctor's office and they raise an eyebrow and then write something I'm like. You know so kids can have that too so if you're reducing that, because also when you're taking data look this is what the kids see right.

And so you're a therapy session key to the podcast. You're doing your head up and down towards where you are. Sorry I forget that this is a podcast. But so I mean we need to focus our brain on our therapy strategies not making tellies for all of these responses that really aren't reliable data to report anyways during the session so I have the data to give you the info for those strategies that's what I keep like I think it is a circle circle that we get so caught up in I have to take data and I have to provide therapy and that they're disconnected, but they all make sure that you know you should be making meaningful notes that will help you for the next time you see the student and then ultimately to get to whatever that long term goal, IV, Eagle, whatever that you're working I like to share this example. And so I love getting IPs from out of states just because I'm nosy on how they write things how looks and I'm always like, oh, I got one from Alaska and I was like, oh, I've never had one.

I've never had a faxed report so typically I don't get progress notes in those but I got one from her and I was like, oh my gosh, and it was an our kid. And I looked at the last progress from like a couple months prior and it said 70% with vocabulary are and I was like, oh my gosh she did all the heavy lifting with the are. I'm just going to go in and you know, polish it off and this kid is probably almost done. Amazing. Well, when I got him into my room and gave him a data sample or baseline him.

So was her data crap, no, absolutely not. What it meant is that kid was responding to her treatment and she probably took data during all of her teaching and her bells and whistles because I got up the math model. He was able to do it. So that gave me good data for he is not there independently. He still needs visual cues.

So when I wrote the new goal, I put with a visual cue student will produce at this amount. And so that gave me information of what I needed to do with him. He could not do it independently the minute he tried without that model that cueing, it went down to 30%. But the problem is, what was reported to parents with 70% that's not independent, right? So that's not reliable data to be reporting and that's kind of my whole point with all of that.

Yeah, and I think too, it's such a, again, this is all connected. I, and we, it 's funny because Sarah and I obviously have done presentations on data collection, IEPs and all of that and geek out on it. Too, because I do think that people will do these things like we already talked about their kind of these independent tasks. They don't see that inner connectivity and the importance of all of these and especially for like an IP, the way that you are reporting progress. Like you said, this is something where parents are just seeing a score and that score and isolation means nothing unless your goal, like maybe she was just checking to like it was like in her head, it's like, oh, I wrote this goal for, for our.

And it's both kind of like at word level, and if I didn't note that but I know that, but you know you're, I, even if you're IEPs don't move. If that's not, you know, super clear of the parents are like, oh, I never hear that are at home but you know I guess 70% that's great at school he's using it. I mean that's how I read at it. So I, like I've inherited one of those two where I had it was a story retail, and it was like four out of five and if they were like at three out of five, four out of five I'm like, oh okay we can look at something else and then I got the student and I'm like, zero out of five and I put that I remember putting that on the partnership or thinking to the parents think they regressed and I would always write a notes box but it's just that clarity of somebody else and even if it's not, even if you have that kid, their entire, you know, elementary career or high school career whatever, you know the parents and the teachers are just looking at those numbers so we have to right at beyond the numbers to see who that kid is. Like for I know it takes time but if you can just write something else in there in that progress, just anything like for that kid I would have if I was her I would have put 70% accuracy with therapist modeling or whatever really needs those cues to keep the tongue back and tight or whatever, whatever he was needing.

You know, I have received progress notes that just say P, that's it. He's for progress. Great. You know, and yes we're all therapists and we can just, you know, baseline and move on but it's just like it'd be nice to have some kind of statement and didn't even need to be a number I would rather almost have a statement than a number at that point. You know what I mean.

Yeah. Well, and I think too so this kind of segues into the next thing I wanted to talk about was that whole idea of not just eligibility but just missiles so particularly with those speech kids that keep going. Or there are some I know sometimes there are one therapist lens is like, no, that's not criteria for for eligibility. And so it can vary so much from therapist to therapist and then again thinking of that long term impact of how teams are understanding the change parents, the student. So, let's talk a little bit about that about kind of what are what do we need to keep in mind from a legal or ethical perspective as well as, you know, these district to district sort of practices and then it's a therapist.

So, I'm going to just let you go give you the. Okay, well, yeah, so eligibility dismissals another area that I trained districts on. I love talking about it. I don't think people love listening by try to make it as fun as possible but it 's, it's important. It's very important.

Well, okay, so you have your federal regulations, then you have your state and then you have your district policy and then you again, you'll have your therapist opinion right so those are kind of the things that influences all of the decisions that are made for kids in the school systems that receive speech. So, we have to go by IDEA for those eligibility and eligibility actually mirrors dismissal. So, first speech, you know, you have those three important things. One is their speech and impairment present. Well, that has to be us.

Next, is there an educational impact, and we have to think beyond academics and I'll talk about that in a second and then the third is their need for specialized services by a speech language pathologist. Number three is sometimes with my older students where I discuss things right. So when I say think beyond academics, we're not just reporting how it's impacting their reader writing. Obviously, we're going to have impact there in most scenarios, not all. So a speech impairment can impact participation.

Speaking, reading in front of others, performing their speeches and communication class, whatever it is, it can impact peer relationships, future vocational opportunities, it can impact functional skills. So we have to think beyond academics, but we have to have a documented document approved that the speech impairment is impacting some of those areas at school. So once we got all that, you're good to go for your eligibility. Now dismissal, again, has to mirror those things right. If all three of those questions do not remain yes, then that student is not eligible anymore.

So when I think about dismissal, obviously the easiest one is we retest and they're within normal range dismissed right but that's not what happens all the time with our older students middle school high school, who have persistent weaknesses, receptively, socially right. So if you give them a self a castle or one of the other test, they may not ever score within normal range. Does that mean they, they have to be in speech their whole career at school career. No, that definitely does not mean that. So, when I do this training, I, there's five things I've looked at, and I tried to make it a really cool acronym, but I just came up with a slow, no acronym d ang it.

So we're going to talk about it's five things you're going to look at history of evaluations we're going to look at all the different values they've had through their career if they started at three, look all the way back if you have it. The history of services, what service delivery models have they had, have they had good direct services were their goals linked to their areas of needs. I mean, I look, I dig deep and look at these things, and then have they been on console. And if they are in console, I always tell people consult can give you the best data points. The next thing I look at is their current supports.

Accommodations IEP staff support like from special education, what do we have in place a lot of my students will go into middle school high school who have, you know, receptive or expressive language disorders they get so much beautiful support throughout their day. You know directions given in a variety of way teacher check for understanding all those things that the teachers do on a daily basis so I look at all that. The next one is I look at least restrictive environment, and I always tell SLPs don't be territorial with this. If a student is needing help with following directions or inferencing you're not the only qualified professional to work on that. There are situations where we are, but not all so don't be territorial with those kids.

And then the third, I mean the fifth thing is that educational need that third prong of eligibility right. So, if the child's needs can be met in all those other things we discussed. And let's say you put them on console for a year this I love using consult with my older kids, and there's been no change or documented regression. That is a data point for your dismissal. You're not needed and that's okay.

You don't need to be sad about it. I think we're, you know, speaking of possessive I think that's where SLPs can feel like they're going to bind though is because you'll have, you know, social education used to be a place and sometimes a far away place. And parents would kind of even sometimes bristle at that expression or that term. And now it's, it's become polar opposite where you have parents were like , no, my kid needs in gets this and whatever so when you have that scenario. I remember even having conversations where you, you know, if we do this, we can always come this isn't like a permanent for everything.

If for some reason, the kid tank, you know, and yeah, that was related to speech and language services, we would definitely revisit that but that's typically not the case. And we need data to support that too so let's try this and even sometimes that 's what I would do is let's move to, I think that console does that nice little buffer, or related service, it's super easy then where you're not. So, you can say, let's do a quarter or two and we'll remove the services and we can bring the team back together who if we need to add them back on but that's where it gets tricky I think we're, if you're new, or new to. Yes, you know, new to the schools, you don't always know like you do feel that pressure from in not only just from the parents I've had principles. Teachers, you know that kind of try to pressure so in those situations is there any kind of nugget that we can give people that if they feel like they are in that regularly, some other things that you can try.

Well, if you're not trying using console does a data point for these, these decisions, that would be my first suggestion. So if you have a kid student that is older and you think it's ready for dismissal, even though there are documented still weaknesses or expressive receptive, move them to consult because you will see if they regress. Over that consult period checking with them periodically or their teacher, however you want to do it. Sometimes on my console goals, I will put a teacher rubric or rating scale but I read it in the goal. So if the child moves.

It's right there for the next team to use. And then I have those data points to check and report at the next at the next meeting if there were no changes, then we will. That's a great data point for dismissal if they've started regressing, then we need to call a meeting and say, you know what, they weren't ready yet for to, you know, go away from direct. But I had a mom, I just a really quick story. The only time I've ever been screamed at, like directly at me in a meeting and an IUP meeting.

I had a student who to six student who was seen for directly and then I put him on console because he was doing great like no issues teacher reporting he is interacting well appropriately at school everything was going great. I had data points every six weeks that next meeting I'm like, he's ready for dismissal the mom stood up yelled at me and told me he has an outside speech and counselor that still works with him on social skills and you're telling me and just went like crazy. And I said well, I'm not sure what they're targeting outside of school but as far as school services, there has to be a documented educational impact teachers. I reported teacher data already but teachers can y'all tell me am I missing something. Each teacher was like nope, nope, and she was like he has no friends at school and then I got to say, I was like nervous but I was like hey it's not my job to make kids socialize in the way that you want them to they get that right.

He's he has a gaming community that he loved and those were his friends. He doesn't like the kids at school. And of course the kid is there because he they 're at their own meeting at that age and he said mom. I don't like anybody here because they're all idiots and I was like oh well there you go. And I don't know that my I know my oldest has a diet and adult diagnosis of autism I always seen kind of issues throughout school with friends and whatever .

But there was an online community I think because their experience though it's it's funny how we do this with our own kids. When I work with kids you see things so objectively with your own kid I know like I had so many blind spots but I remember thinking like oh no I want I did this I want them to do that. But that that online community, that's not my community like that's not how I get my bucket full my friendship bucket full so to speak but that is how how they have navigated and I feel like just now they're almost 25 now. Probably the past couple years doing like some game nights and whatever in person I'm like, oh, human like friends that you can touch. Right.

Yeah, and like, and I just love that kid so much and I was just like you know he gets he gets the right to social as he wants to that's what he wants. And like if other kids talk to him in school he would talk back to them he was never rude he would do group activities I mean like he doesn't need me at school so anyways the whole IEP we eventually they all back to me up in the mom . She kind of came around but it was one of the hardest it's a difficult conversation sometimes. And it's because you don't want to look at you don't want to be looked at like you're you're done helping this student right we get that because I don't want to. Right, right it's just because we're not needed and we really have to look at those eligibility and dismissal criteria carefully because, of course, we want to help everybody and anyone who comes across you know we come across that needs support.

But sometimes their support can be, you know, received other places, you know, well, and that's even, I think of those kids that when you have parents that come in for a meeting and it can go both ways where you have a kid that's just a disaster at school. And at home they're like I never see this or the flip like at school, you know, the parent comes in with all of these concerns, but at school we're like we don 't see that. And I do think it is if you think about, I always equate like you know kids in school it's like us with a full time job. And there are ways that you act at your job that you don't act when you're home because you have to, we all mask, we have autism, not like you are holding it in like the stuff that I may be to somebody's face I won't, because I won't. And so, all of that like, and then I come home and then I'm just like an asshole to everyone because, you know, because they love me anyway so I think that for that too.

And there, and so it's not just that they I think they are able to react differently, but I think the environment is different is a very structured environment, a very routine environment and even though some homes do have consistency and structure, not all do. Have consistency and structure it is not the same as right, you know, all of your peers around you, your teachers, the support you're baked into education. But where I think this connects into to what I love you to talk about too is that idea of then on the flip side if we aren't looking at these things and we 're just trying to make everyone happy. Those caseload sizes are ridiculous. And we're part of the problem.

Maria, I think did us an SLC summit for us and talked about eligibility, and this idea and action to caseload that caseloads are not all just your school district and they, I mean, that's not generalizing that for all situations, but, you know, we can get into that trope of just like we'll just keep them and we'll just do this but then it is a disservice to to the student. It does a disservice to us and how we can spread our time. Absolutely. Do you have any. Okay, so I know we just talked about it could be ourselves that are putting this ourselves in situation, but what if I know, you know, I, we are in the Phoenix, you're in Texas.

I'm in the Phoenix zone at area and every suburb of Phoenix has its own school district and the case slide caseload sizes, very so dramatically where right in the largest district in the state of Arizona. We did have not a an official cat but we worked through a sort of a district model. There was another district just north of us that had a lower one. So you get people coming up full that would go there. There was another one where our friend and page from beautiful speech life.

Yes . It's easy like kids in the 90s or hundreds or whatever and I'm like, no, how you do that so. Right. Is there anything that we can give to the audience as far as if I'm in any of those scenarios. The first scenario, try not to do that to yourself start to recognize things, but what if I am in a situation where I've got a big caseload and I'm starting to burn out.

It's really hard with that situation because there's no easy answer because each district, each principal, each supervisor is going to handle things differently, but I would say number one, at least, even if it doesn't, you know , there's no changes that are made make your supervisor aware of what you're experiencing. I love this strategy. When you're like, I have no time for paperwork documentation because I'm back to back therapy. I've grown out my schedule to take to my meetings with my supervisors. I used to be like, Hey, I have to have times to write reports.

I have to. What can we do, you know, and a lot of times I was advocating to get taken off of all those duty extra duties. And I was successful, but I was such a people pleaser for so long that I never wanted to say no, I had bus duty every morning one year. And my first session was at eight. I wouldn't get back to the room till eight, 10, and then by the time I got the kids is a 15.

I was missing 15 minutes of legally mandated minutes and there was nowhere to make it up in the day so it just pushed my day 15 minutes back. So I went to the principal with my schedule printed and I said, Hey, I don't know how to legally get these minutes in because I'm having to do morning duty. What is your opinion here's my schedule, I need you to help. And she said, Oh, I see you have no eight o'clock on Fridays. How about we just put you on Fridays and we'll get someone else to do Monday through Thursday.

I'm like, perfect. But if I never done that or never, I think, printing out the schedule is what did it, you know, that is. Okay, we're coming full circle here data. Right. I think I was in this, this is the very same thing.

I was assigned a bike rack duty. I want to say, it wasn't every day, but it was like three times a week. And I went to my principal and I said, you know, I understand everybody needs to do duties and I'm more than happy. We had it structured in our district to do to try to get anything that we knew was going to be doing August like if we got transfer kids or whatever. We would try to do it in May like push up the line so we're not coming back and having to do those.

Right. But I was like so for like the first month month and a half. I'm happy to do this. But then I said, I switched to IP duty. That's when we have our meetings too.

So even if you don't have direct services . That's, I need before and after school to, to do those, those IEP meetings or med meetings or red meetings or any of those meeting like millions of meetings that we have to go. Right. But it was, I remember seeing thing it was going through and seeing you know I 've got 60 something students. If we have this many IPs that's that many meetings, we're going to have transfers that's that many, we have 180 school days.

So that was data and he immediately was like, Oh yeah, no problem. I'll take you off it, whatever, versus there was a special education teacher that just said, I don't, you know, I can't do bike or duty too bad. Right. You've got to come, you've got to come with your data. Yeah.

And come with the conversation of like, you know, I always think to, I always even told my kids this like if you don't ask for something. The answers are ready to know like if you're just going to assume they won't work with you but I think most people, it's having the conversation and it's not just like saying I want. Right. This is how I'm seeing it if there's another way that you see it but here's what I'm looking at. And you make it about that.

And it tends to go your way, I think, a lot of the time. Yeah. Well, and with supervisors, I always, I always ask for their input so it 's not me demanding something it's us working together to solve a problem and typical, most of the time supervisors respond better than that because otherwise it looks like you're just complaining and not wanting to be a team member. You know, everybody else doing duties why can't you do them. Yeah.

Right. Exactly. Well, and another thing I always tell people right off the bat if you 're in a new job, you have to make sure you're non negotiable are really clear. So one year, speaking of IEP meetings after school, we never did that in this district, well, they call this in there like we're going to start, we're going to start doing all IEPs right after school. And I said, speech IEPs will not be able to because I'm the only one to pick up my children from after school and I can't stay after in my working time, you know, in my contract, I leave it for, and I have no one else to pick up my children.

I'm so sorry, but this, there's nothing I can do. And guess what, I was never made to do it because I set my non negotiable, I mean, I would like, you would basically have to fire me if you made me do that because of my kids come first, you know what I mean. So, but it wasn't like I was complaining everybody understood, you know, and we didn't start having IEPs after school. So, you know, because I was in the same boat like I was very clear with my boundaries working in a school and when I had students or CFs or anything, we would have these conversations. I think in my situation, it was like you, I had kids my kids were, you know, school age when I when I entered my last role in the schools, my youngest who's now 21 was born.

And it was a single parent and I'm like, I do little kids. So they force you to have boundaries, but website I think, even if you don't have kids or those reasons, your boundaries. You know, there are things flexible but I think when you're being asked things. Your time is your time and when you've got that caseload and you're, we're not teachers we're not, you know, we can't everybody can't always do the same thing or act the same way my caseload. So, you know, I was going to be doing a piece before school after school, but it was around like these different schedules, including the family and the teachers, so it's just I think any time we get locked into this.

You everybody's doing it like this. Well, let's maybe like chat about that. But that was critical. My students to just saying, if you're, you know, everybody has late nights everybody has a time that they're bringing something home on a weekend. It will happen.

And that's the flexibility piece. If that is a constant where you are working every night and every weekend. That 's something's wrong. And it, and sometimes it's the district sometimes it is the individual. Right.

Not to to look at, is there anything we can do to streamline our work flows to protect our time to set those boundaries. Is there anything that you found to be super effective or essential in kind of sustaining your ability to be an SLP, you know, for a whole school year. Right. Well, I would say, having a spreadsheet with everybody's name their when their IPs are due when their vowels do color coded. So when I bring up my spreadsheet for the new year anybody who has an eval do that year, it's red.

So my eyes are aware of it. And then I color code to everything that's tasked in my calendar my Google calendar. So it pops up on my watch on my phone on my computer that I need to do this, write the review of existing evaluation for so and so I task out everything. And then if you're super behind in paperwork, which I know we are all, you know , here's my advice focus on what's due next and that's it for that moment. And then focus focus on what's due next, and utilize those nuggets of time that you were gifted with, you know, gifted, when like a third grade whole third grade is at the pumpkin farm right.

Close your door lock it so you're not, you know, fine, when I was doing paperwork because I'm like, I don't want anybody coming in and if they see testing, they won't. Right, because I am so chatty and like I love to talk about stuff so I will waste so much time. And then if that's if that's the case with me if I know I 've chatted it up with my LS my school psychologist and wasted time. I might do a report at home that week because my fault right. But if I'm utilizing my time wisely at work, you, you can get most things done within your work, but you know that you're working hours.

When people struggling, talk to your bosses, or come in 15 minutes early states 30 minutes late, set a timer when that time's done you leave. Don't, because here's the thing I had to sign like some kind of policy when I was hired at all these schools saying I would not use district time for personal things right, I had to sign something. Why are we expected to use our personal time for them, right, then sign something, right, I will not. I saw on page seven, this added a denim. Because you can you imagine if we're stealing time from our school, we could, that's a major offense but they, it's like, we have this like mindset that we have to get it done no matter what because we're on salary.

So that's them stealing time from you you already give so much time to your job , don't let it trickle into your personal life. And another tip, an easy tip, everyone can do this I always tell when I do presentations on boundaries I'm like everyone get out your phone point to your email app and everyone's pointing I'm like oh God, take it off your phone, get it off delete that and they're like oh my gosh I know it is convenient. But if you take once or turn the alerts off at least because if you're watching movies with your friends your families your dogs whoever you got whatever you got going on yourself because that's important to and a work email pops up and it says something you're immediately taken out of whatever you're doing, and your brain is now thinking about work. So don't just remove that temptation for a lot. I did a lot.

I see myself in you. I did a lot of this work. I had the email app but I would, you know I have an iPhone and you can go into emails and every time at the end of work I would just switch it off so I, yeah, but then I'm not getting it because even if I saw numbers going up. That was me out and I might have anything about it until tomorrow. So I get off and then when I was going back into work the next day, click it on so I still liked that convenience of having it that if I was like you know the kind of person I would stress again even if I just thought numbers even if I didn't get the notification I would still look and I'm like why do I have 10 emails or whatever.

And then I think too that the systems like you talked about like that just work on the next IP. One of the tips that are tricks that really worked for me is I had one of those old school teacher desks. And in my right bottom that held all of my folders. I had sections and so one of the sections was I would pull out like, you know, my five kind of working files of it or assessments or whatever. And I would have them in order, because even if you get that like if I have 10 minutes to work on an IP, if you are like, who is it, where's that file, you know, like all of that stuff you do to even get to like, well now you're at like three minutes.

And finally, I have three minutes I'm not even even going to do anything versus I would literally feel like I've got 10 minutes let me grab that next he out and get going and use this 10 minutes so it is. I think the beauty of today versus even like you know I started in the field in 1997 which is crazy I started working in schools in 2000 I think it was. The access to each other and hearing these kinds of there were no podcasts there were no right we're not full you know Reddit and Facebook influencers and all of that showing me all of these cool things to do it was a lot of stuff out but there is no I feel like right now if you are experiencing anything you could go on and say you know what guys what am I missing this is this is what's going on I tried this, what else can I try and you have people that know you see you. I know you as an I am an SLP I know you you're an SLP and we can write this out and people love to share so don't absolutely in your own way. Use these resources.

And yes, well and I do what I call a Monday audit of my spreadsheets because like every district I work for three different districts right now and I cover so many campuses and all those hundreds of children. I have each one has a tab on my spreadsheet and I do what I call a Monday audit I go look and see what's do this week. And if there's nothing do on that district that's week I move on and then I make me list what I'm doing this week . And I don't worry about anything else besides that whatever is on my task list for that week that is what I'm worried about because there is so much we have to think about. So do it one IEP at a time one week at a time one day at a time if you have to, because most SLPs are juggling that and their therapy.

Right, so it's it's a lot. It's a lot and set reminders for yourself. Yes, but a good I mean I love color coding I think it's one of the best things if you train your brain to know what color means like a yellow on my spreadsheet means the meeting is scheduled. But I haven't done the documentation yet. If it turns green I've done all the documentation you know it's like my brain is used to that.

So I can do my Monday audit and I'm like, okay I know what I need to do. Well, I think this is a great way to end it I feel like there's been a lot of like strategies and tips and tricks that people can take away and start to try. And I would also say follow Mandy on socials because she will share a lot of these tips and tricks as well as lots of fun reels that are super relatable. So what are what is the best way for people to find you after this episode. Instagram on more active on that.

I'm on the other social so you can find me in all of them but I'm kind of like that old but Instagram is where I'm most comfortable. So there, or you can, you know, my email is, you can go to my website you can send me a message email but I have her come present for your district so we're handle at Panda speech. Yep. And if you if you put the words Panda speech in Google you'll find me. It 's, it's there.

Well, this has been an awesome episode I really appreciate you joining us today I just want to remind anyone who's listening that that you can earn CE credits for listening to this episode which is awesome so head over to the resources section and be the brightest dot com. If you have any questions at all about how to earn CE use or deadlines or requirements or any of that just shoot an email hello at be the brightest dot com so Mandy thanks again for your time today was awesome as always getting to chat with you. Of course, thanks for having me. I had fun. Bye.

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